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Women’s boxing: Olympic discipline or blood sport?

Submit questions by Nov 30 2007
Interview published on Dec 14 2007

Introduction

Boxing, the only Olympic sport closed to women, could be including female contestants at the 2012 Olympics. Supporters regard this as a positive step towards gender equality despite opposition from within the boxing community and the World Medical Association.

The profile of boxing has been raised amongst youth in the UK by Olympic medal winner Amir Khan and also given the thumbs up for girls by double gold medal winner Dame Kelly Holmes. So maybe it’s not surprising to see its re-emergence on some school’s curriculumsfor both sexes, after a 50 year ban. Given that research shows that teenage girls in the UK are not engaging with sports to the level of boys the same age, it could be argued that Olympic endorsement and the rise of a female champion on a par with Amir Khan could encourage girls’ involvement at school; spawning a new generation of British female boxers and potential Olympic winners.

However the British Medical Association calls for a ban on boxing starting with the abolition of participants under 16. Would parents object to daughters participating from school age in a sport where long term brain injury is a concern? Even members of the boxing community are sceptical, with both the national welsh boxing coach Tony Williams and former world flyweight champion Dave ‘Boy’ McAuley voicing doubts about women being suitable participants in such a punishing sport. Supporters the world over would disagree including young women in Calcutta and Afghanistan who view the sport as providing a sense of identity, self respect and hope.

Should women box at the London Olympics? Is it a suitable sport for young women? Should parents be concerned about children playing a risk sport at school? Is exclusion denying our future female champions a chance? Put your questions to those in the know.

Bios

Professor Vivienne Nathanson – Director of Professional Activities, British Medical Association

Professor Nathanson qualified at Middlesex Hospital Medical School in London, 1978 and after five and a half years in hospital medical posts joined the British Medical Association staff in 1984. Professor Nathanson was appointed as Scottish Secretary (Chief Executive) for the BMA 1990-1995, and then as Head of Central Services and International Affairs 1995-1996. She is now Director of Professional Activities at the BMA, which encompasses all the professional areas of work of the BMA including Ethics and Public Health. In 2004 she became both an Honorary Professor in the School for Health at Durham University and an honorary Doctor of Science at Strathclyde University.

Paul King – CEO of the Amateur Boxing Association of England.

Paul King is the CEO of the Amateur Boxing Association of England Ltd (ABAE), a non profit organisation and the sport's national governing body. Commencing in April 2006, the ABAE began to absorb responsibility for delivering the elite programme for UK Sport, which is vastly focussed on achieving more Olympic medals and qualifying athletes. The ABAE is currently in the process of employing Boxing Development Officers in areas of the country considered 'hotspots'. With support and funding from local authorities, the Boxing Development Officers will support the delivery of the Whole Sports Plan.

Laura Saperstein - Professional Boxer

Laura Saperstein has worked as a TV journalist in Australia and a senior corporate lawyer for a major international law firm in London. She is a former amateur Lightweight champion and recently turned professional. Laura also runs a busy property development business and is the founder of www.boxergirl.net a successful boxing website aimed at women. She firmly believes that women's boxing will grow dramatically in coming years and works towards promoting and uniting women involved in the sport through her website.

Laura Saperstein

citybird15 asked Laura Saperstein: "What are the female boxing community doing to get women's boxing onto the Olympic schedule and are you personally involved in any petitions or campaigns?"
Laura Saperstein answer: "It’s very difficult to raise the profile yourself. I’ve had a lot of negativity from the authorities. I started the ‘Boxergirl’ website 3 years ago , I wanted to put on a female boxing tournament and ..." Show more»" It’s very difficult to raise the profile yourself. I’ve had a lot of negativity from the authorities. I started the ‘Boxergirl’ website 3 years ago , I wanted to put on a female boxing tournament and I sought assistance from the authorities and got told I’d be blacklisted. There seems to be an attitude that if I got involved as a female boxer rather than as a member of an established authority then I must be doing it for my own benefit or for money so they didn’t want to help. To me that’s absurd because no one to date has put on a women’s tournament in this country and it takes money to do that. As a female boxer I would love to help some of the other girls to get fights and put on a tournament but it takes money and at the moment any funding that’s available will obviously go to whoever is in charge of developing women’s boxing in this country and they don’t seem keen on anyone who isn’t in an official position either with the ABA or the police boxing clubs, to have a role. If I can make any money out of my professional career one of the first things I want to do is put on a tournament for female boxers but you need resources and money to do it. And it’s really hard. For me the biggest barrier was I couldn’t find anyone to box and no one was making enough effort to find me opportunities so that’s why I started the website so that girls could find each other and matchmakers had a resource. "Show less«
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sevenof8 asked Laura Saperstein: "Female boxers are virtually unknown compared to the general public compared to their male counterparts. What do you thinks needs to change in the UK for female boxers to achieve the same level of sporting..." Show more »"Female boxers are virtually unknown compared to the general public compared to their male counterparts. What do you thinks needs to change in the UK for female boxers to achieve the same level of sporting recognition as male boxers?" Show less »
Laura Saperstein answer: "The way it works for the men is it’s very easy for a male novice on his home territory whereas if you want to match a female you have to look round the whole country. The boxing establishment haven’t ..." Show more»" The way it works for the men is it’s very easy for a male novice on his home territory whereas if you want to match a female you have to look round the whole country. The boxing establishment haven’t been very techno competent at matching women, they use the old style way of getting in touch with a mate that they know at another club to get a match. Now if it’s a girl you might need to go to Birmingham or Wales or elsewhere in the UK to get a match and the matchmakers might not have contacts in those areas so they tend not to bother. Plus it costs money because you have to travel. In the end if your not getting bouts then you won’t develop as a boxer, you can do shadow boxing and press ups forever but you’re not going to improve your skill unless you actually box. Largely the problem has been that there’s been a lack of opportunity in the sport to develop a big strong base for women. Of course it’s not going to be easy to change this but when your forging something new and there are obstacles there are also big opportunities. I think public opinion is starting to change. At my recent fight a lot of the men who’d come to watch the male fighters on the bill came to tell me that mine was by far the best fight of the night, including trainers. I think people will start to accept women’s boxing and it will become more popular, especially at an amateur level. "Show less«
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tobie75 asked Laura Saperstein: "Sportsmen and Women have always been held as positive role models for young people, Amir Khan being an obvious recent example. At the moment there is a government intiative to get girls involved in sport...." Show more »"Sportsmen and Women have always been held as positive role models for young people, Amir Khan being an obvious recent example. At the moment there is a government intiative to get girls involved in sport. Do you think that a female boxer would be a good role model for young people and if so what could they do to get more girls involved in boxing?" Show less »
Laura Saperstein answer: "Yes definitely. As I understand it statistically girls aren’t taking up sport and it’s big problem. I would love to be involved in initiatives such as the one that Kelly Holmes is running for girls. I..." Show more»" Yes definitely. As I understand it statistically girls aren’t taking up sport and it’s big problem. I would love to be involved in initiatives such as the one that Kelly Holmes is running for girls. I was at a conference run by the women’s sport and fitness foundation that the Prime Minister opened recently about the obesity crisis which is a massive problem and will cause a huge strain on the NHS. Not only among girls but we’ve got an ageing population as well. We need to get all women doing enough physical activity. And it’s really important that it’s enjoyable. Sport should have a social aspect too and be something you want to do not have to do. I used to teach a lot of girls only classes and my coach runs a school from my gym which is a government enterprise. I don’t know if more girls are taking up boxing than other sports but I know the sport is growing and I fully intend in my professional career to help girls getting involved in the sport and to promote boxing for women in general. "Show less«
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lavanya1307 asked Laura Saperstein: "Based on your own personal experience, what advise would you give the aspiring female boxer?"
Laura Saperstein answer: "A lot of people give up because it’s not easy. So my advice would be if there’s an obstacle don’t give up because there is always a way round it. Look for support from people already in the sport, speak..." Show more»" A lot of people give up because it’s not easy. So my advice would be if there’s an obstacle don’t give up because there is always a way round it. Look for support from people already in the sport, speak to other girls who are boxing, if you need a bit of help getting a fight use the boxer girl website or speak to someone like me who has already encountered those difficulties and can give some insight on how to combat them. "Show less«
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Emmski asked Laura Saperstein: "What do you think are the main benefits of boxing for girls and how would you recommend it over other sporting activities?"
Laura Saperstein answer: "The wonderful thing about boxing for girls is it is such a fantastic antidote to a lot of messages out there about how we should look, behave, and what’s important. This idea amongst young girls that ..." Show more»" The wonderful thing about boxing for girls is it is such a fantastic antidote to a lot of messages out there about how we should look, behave, and what’s important. This idea amongst young girls that it’s all about how you look and that is the most important thing. That being thin is more important than being healthy , that looking good is more important than anything else that as a female your role is just to look good. Whereas boxing is all about courage, discipline and respect. It teaches those excellent values and it’s not necessarily about whose got the best technique or whose the most talented. It’s much more about whose willing to put themselves out there and really have a go and that’s what admired and celebrated. It’s celebrated by the boys, the girls, and the boys about the girls. When you train together and you’re all pushing yourselves to the limit and you’re out there in combat you forget all the rubbish and all that nonsense about how you look. It comes down to achieving a goal and I think that’s a really positive image for girls. The appeal of boxing is that it’s a real confidence builder and despite the view to the contrary it’s a lot safer than gymnastics, horse riding or probably even football for that matter. Statistically injuries are very small but also children are more likely to be doing non contact boxing. "Show less«
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ajnewman asked Laura Saperstein: "Compared to other countries how do you rate the level of women’s boxing in the UK and is it good enough for us to have proper representation at the 2012 Olympics?"
Laura Saperstein answer: "As long as they put some effort into it in between now and then, then absolutely. It takes many years to develop a sport to it’s peak, even now they’re breaking records in swimming and sprinting. It takes..." Show more»" As long as they put some effort into it in between now and then, then absolutely. It takes many years to develop a sport to it’s peak, even now they’re breaking records in swimming and sprinting. It takes a long time to get to the pinnacle and women’s boxing overall will improve over the next few years. I certainly think there are enough girls in the UK to put on a very good show in 2012 especially if the powers that be get involved in putting effort into promoting it and getting the girls out actually boxing instead of just being in the gym training. "Show less«
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Vivienne Nathanson

Londontowner asked Vivienne Nathanson : "Certain groups like young males routinely put themselves at above average risk by driving. Hundreds are killed or injured each year, yet society tolerates it and is legal. So why ban boxing for women?..." Show more »"Certain groups like young males routinely put themselves at above average risk by driving. Hundreds are killed or injured each year, yet society tolerates it and is legal. So why ban boxing for women? What's different?" Show less »
Vivienne Nathanson answer: "The BMA’s key concern is the significant medical implications of boxing in both the short and long term. There is however something of a contradiction in the inclusion of violent sports such as boxing..." Show more»" The BMA’s key concern is the significant medical implications of boxing in both the short and long term. There is however something of a contradiction in the inclusion of violent sports such as boxing at an event of purported international goodwill. "Show less«
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sevenof8 asked Vivienne Nathanson : "Boxing is becoming increasingly popular for women as a form of exercise, with many gyms promoting it as a good form of self defence and a way of improving self confidence, along with it's physical health..." Show more »"Boxing is becoming increasingly popular for women as a form of exercise, with many gyms promoting it as a good form of self defence and a way of improving self confidence, along with it's physical health benefits. Is boxing safe for women when used purely as a form of exercise rather than practised as a competitive sport?" Show less »
Vivienne Nathanson answer: "As well as the large risk of acute injuries sustained in boxing, some of which are major, there is a risk of chronic damage following repeated trauma. Each time someone is hit on the head they may sustain..." Show more»" As well as the large risk of acute injuries sustained in boxing, some of which are major, there is a risk of chronic damage following repeated trauma. Each time someone is hit on the head they may sustain a minor degree of brain injury. It has been claimed that eighty per cent of boxers have brain scarring as a result of the cumulative effects of blows to the head. Once damaged, the brain is increasingly susceptible to further damage. Boxing also damages the eyes, ears and nose - in some cases there may be permanent sight or hearing loss. Specifically to women, trauma to the breast can cause a condition called fat necrosis, in which part of the tissue dies and becomes a hard lump – the effectiveness of breast protection is limited. We have not investigated differences in the relative prevalence of long-term injuries to women and men. "Show less«
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shakeel8 asked Vivienne Nathanson : "Recent media reports highlight both childhood obesity and growing disinterest in sports among teenage girls as major health concerns. Given that there is no real evidence to show that amateur boxing ..." Show more »"Recent media reports highlight both childhood obesity and growing disinterest in sports among teenage girls as major health concerns. Given that there is no real evidence to show that amateur boxing can cause long term health problems, if children are interested in taking this up as a sport wouldn’t the advantages of being active outweigh the disadvantages of minor injuries? " Show less »
Vivienne Nathanson answer: "Obesity is an increasingly significant problem in the UK and efforts should be made to encourage interest in sport and being active. But boxing has its own significant risks to health, and as such concerted..." Show more»" Obesity is an increasingly significant problem in the UK and efforts should be made to encourage interest in sport and being active. But boxing has its own significant risks to health, and as such concerted effort should go into advertising and raising participation in other sports, where inflicting pain and injury is not the objective. Although there is less evidence of long-term health problems in amateur boxing, that does not mean there is no risk. Evidence suggests that like their professional counterparts, amateur boxers are affected by chronic brain injury, albeit to a lesser extent. The use of headgear in amateur boxing is often promotes as preventing brain injury, when in fact it only prevents superficial head damage. This could mean that boxers receive more damage to their brain than they would otherwise, for example a fight continuing to knockout, which may have been stopped earlier due to other superficial head injuries. There is also the possibility that head guards could increase the injury by presenting more angled edges to blows which then produce the classical boxing rotational acceleration effect. The only way to prevent brain damage in boxing is to either ban boxing entirely or ban blows to the head. "Show less«
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shakeel8 asked Vivienne Nathanson : "The BMA states that it is morally unacceptable in our society to promote a sport which aims to inflict brain damage on an opponent, especially in regards to children. However both the Police community..." Show more »"The BMA states that it is morally unacceptable in our society to promote a sport which aims to inflict brain damage on an opponent, especially in regards to children. However both the Police community clubs and the Amateur boxing Association run youth programmes to promote social inclusion in deprived areas. Isn’t it better for kids to be channelling their energies into boxing and get a few cuts and scrapes rather than being prey to the gun culture and violence so often reported in some poorer areas of the UK?" Show less »
Vivienne Nathanson answer: "Children’s boxing is sometimes defended on the grounds that they learn to work through their aggression with discipline. The BMA believes there are many other sports, including athletics, swimming, judo..." Show more»" Children’s boxing is sometimes defended on the grounds that they learn to work through their aggression with discipline. The BMA believes there are many other sports, including athletics, swimming, judo and football, which require discipline but do not pose the same threat of brain injury. While young boxers do not have as powerful a punch as mature boxers, some studies have found that young boxers exhibit early evidence of brain damage. This danger was highlighted in 1987 by the death of 15-year-old amateur boxer Joseph Strickland, due to acute brain injury. The BMA believes that the government should give more consideration to the provision of alternative leisure facilities for the young, particularly in deprived areas. "Show less«
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tobie75 asked Vivienne Nathanson : "What do you think about boxing being reintroduced into the school curriculum for girls as well as boys?"
Vivienne Nathanson answer: "The inclusion of boxing in the school curriculum is very worrying. While, in schools, it would be non-contact fighting exercises it could encourage more people to take up the full-contact sport outside..." Show more»" The inclusion of boxing in the school curriculum is very worrying. While, in schools, it would be non-contact fighting exercises it could encourage more people to take up the full-contact sport outside school. Inevitably if people take part in “real” boxing they are exposed to the very real possibility of brain damage. The BMA believe there are two main reasons for banning children under the age of 16 years from boxing: • children have little understanding of risk, and are especially likely to underestimate the seriousness and level of risk of chronic brain damage, which develops only after a lag period measured in decades or more • there is no place in contemporary society for a youth sport which has, as its primary goal, the infliction of acute and chronic brain damage on an opponent. The BMA is calling for a ban on children’s boxing due to the severity of the risks involved. "Show less«
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citybird15 asked Vivienne Nathanson : "Do you think that including women’s boxing in future Olympics will have a serious impact on the numbers of girls taking up the sport in the future, and are the BMA taking steps towards blocking it’s inclusion..." Show more »"Do you think that including women’s boxing in future Olympics will have a serious impact on the numbers of girls taking up the sport in the future, and are the BMA taking steps towards blocking it’s inclusion at the 2012 Olympics? " Show less »
Vivienne Nathanson answer: "As mentioned earlier, the BMA believe that boxing has no place on the sporting line-up, especially for international competitions promoting a message of peace and harmony. Inclusion of women’s boxing ..." Show more»" As mentioned earlier, the BMA believe that boxing has no place on the sporting line-up, especially for international competitions promoting a message of peace and harmony. Inclusion of women’s boxing in the Olympic programme would encourage more girls to take up boxing, due to the high profile of the games. The BMA continues to call for a ban on boxing in all forms. "Show less«
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Parisotto asked Vivienne Nathanson : "At the moment public opinion seems in favour of boxing but we don't hear much about the health risks and or progress of anti boxing legislation. What are the BMA doing to advance the anti boxing campaign..." Show more »"At the moment public opinion seems in favour of boxing but we don't hear much about the health risks and or progress of anti boxing legislation. What are the BMA doing to advance the anti boxing campaign at governmental level and what effect would this have on the bid to have women's boxing included in the 2012 Olympics?" Show less »
Vivienne Nathanson answer: "The British Medical Association (BMA) has been an authority on boxing since 1982 and opposes both amateur and professional boxing and calls for a complete ban. In September 2007 the BMA updated its call..." Show more»" The British Medical Association (BMA) has been an authority on boxing since 1982 and opposes both amateur and professional boxing and calls for a complete ban. In September 2007 the BMA updated its call for a ban on boxing to include other combat sports such as mixed martial arts fighting. The BMA along with the Australian Medical Association believe that ‘international events based on the spirit of goodwill – such as Olympic and Commonwealth Games – are no place for interpersonal violence and injury’ and that ‘it's time to remove boxing from the sporting line-up’. Boxing by men and women is equally unacceptable. "Show less«
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nanapaname asked Vivienne Nathanson : "What do you think of programmes that show boxing as a positivee activity for young people? For example the recent channel 4 show Amir Khan's angry young men. Do you think such shows properly represent..." Show more »"What do you think of programmes that show boxing as a positivee activity for young people? For example the recent channel 4 show Amir Khan's angry young men. Do you think such shows properly represent the risks associated with boxing?" Show less »
Vivienne Nathanson answer: "The BMA cannot comment on this programme. Generally, however, boxing is too often portrayed in a positive light, and as valuable for young people’s development. These programmes rarely deal with the harsh..." Show more»" The BMA cannot comment on this programme. Generally, however, boxing is too often portrayed in a positive light, and as valuable for young people’s development. These programmes rarely deal with the harsh realities of the serious health consequences that follow. The media has a tendency to glamorise combat sports with mention of the dangers only in the wake of tragic events. Sadly, changes to the legal status of boxing are unlikely to come in the current climate. Public conscience and opinion is moved by tragedy, and so while there are no high profile injuries, the chronic and acute damage caused by boxing will continue. The BMA, and national medical associations in many other countries will continue to educate and inform the public of the reality of brain injury risks associated with boxing. If you are repeatedly struck on the head your brain will be injured. Where’s the sport in that? "Show less«
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Unanswered questions (click arrow right to display)

citybird15 is asking Laura Saperstein: "Why do you think that women's boxing isn't on the Olympic agenda?"
21
0 comment | Topic: Sport | Report | Dec 14 2007 12:14:40 PM |

nanapaname is asking Laura Saperstein: "Do you think that women have a different boxing style from men?"
23
0 comment | Topic: Sport | Report | Nov 21 2007 12:00:35 PM |

tobie75 is asking Paul King: "Who are the UK's rising stars in women's boxing? Do we have enough female boxers of a high enough standard to win medals at the 2012 Olympics?"
28
0 comment | Topic: Sport | Report | Nov 17 2007 3:34:06 PM |

citybird15 is asking Paul King: "There is some concern about the inclusion of women’s boxing at the Olympics leading to the elimination of some weight categories in the men’s division, is this really a problem and would it have an effect..." Show more »"There is some concern about the inclusion of women’s boxing at the Olympics leading to the elimination of some weight categories in the men’s division, is this really a problem and would it have an effect on the ABAE’s promotion of women’s boxing at the Olympics?" Show less »
30
0 comment | Topic: Sport | Report | Nov 14 2007 4:15:20 PM |

Parisotto is asking Paul King: "Boxing is recently back on the curriculum in some London schools for girls as well as boys. What would you say to a parent who was concerned about their daughter taking part in this sport?"
38
0 comment | Topic: Sport | Report | Nov 14 2007 1:04:39 PM |

Parisotto is asking Laura Saperstein: "Some people still consider boxing an unsuitable sport for women. Have you had any negative reactions from either the boxing community or the people you meet in everyday life and do you feel people treat..." Show more »"Some people still consider boxing an unsuitable sport for women. Have you had any negative reactions from either the boxing community or the people you meet in everyday life and do you feel people treat you differently when they find out that you are a successful female boxer?" Show less »
38
0 comment | Topic: Sport | Report | Nov 14 2007 1:02:29 PM |

TiffMcMC is asking Paul King: "Given women's longstanding participation in international competitions such as the European and World championships, why do you think that women's boxing still isn't on the olympic agenda?"
33
0 comment | Topic: Sport | Report | Nov 14 2007 12:52:22 PM |

TiffMcMC is asking Laura Saperstein: "What are your feelings about women's boxing not being part of the Olympics? Do you see it purely as an obstacle to your career or do you see it as undermining the equality of women in sports?"
37
0 comment | Topic: Sport | Report | Nov 14 2007 12:48:22 PM |

citybird15 is asking Laura Saperstein: "If women’s boxing isn’t included at the 2012 Olympics what effect if any will this have on your future as a sportswoman and do you think it will have a negative impact on the growth of women’s boxing?"
31
0 comment | Topic: Sport | Report | Nov 13 2007 2:50:40 PM |

sevenof8 is asking Laura Saperstein: "Women's boxing in the UK doesn't seem to be as popular or recognised as it is in the U.S.A. where female boxers such as Laila Ali have celebrity status. Why do you think this is and do you think it will..." Show more »"Women's boxing in the UK doesn't seem to be as popular or recognised as it is in the U.S.A. where female boxers such as Laila Ali have celebrity status. Why do you think this is and do you think it will change in the future? " Show less »
32
0 comment | Topic: Sport | Report | Nov 08 2007 4:58:53 PM |

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